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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: Dec 1, 2008 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Hey pecker d00d,

You read and decide.
http://www.thebear.org/albums.html#anchor753229

HTH
peace,
Pigpen81

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 1, 2008 6:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Late to this show...har, har.

Never attended one myself (was this primarily East Coast? Not at Fillmore West?), BUT those that did say that: from the aud's perspective, you had a ticket for an early or a late show. They cleared the venue between. From the band's perspective, you played ALL night...

Think of Jerry playing two diff sets with the DEAD and with NRPS...May 14, etc. Amazing.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 1, 2008 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

4 you!!! WT!! :) FROM THE EAST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc26EFI1_nw

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 1, 2008 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

4 you!!! WT!! :) FROM THE EAST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc26EFI1_nw

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Dec 1, 2008 6:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

hi wt we dig the heartbeats!!! at the matrix!!! smile 68!!@#

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 1, 2008 8:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

...Hmmm. This interview with Bear exposes something previously quoted and taken as fact to be indeed, out of context. Around the time that the boards were pulled here there was a great discussion as to the authenticity and lineage of certain shows that were pulled.

"From the feedback I have had, and the tapes I have listened to, I estimate 30% or more of both audience and "board" tapes/CD's are either mislabeled or faked."

Since the quote was from a "reputable" source, it was taken as gospel that the LMA could not decipher AUD from SBD, fake from real and further couldn't take away our ear candy.


This interview and this quote were represented as being for all the shows in circulation, rather than these "rare shows" where there were multiple "shows" in one evening.

Just goes to show how deceptive "facts" can appear to be at times.

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Poster: paulypecker Date: Dec 1, 2008 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Lots of great stuff here.Thanks. Nice historical info. Owsley's clarifications on the EARLY/LATE SHOW topic was quite interesting. So they're actually "marching bears" and not really "dancing". This is neat trivia and an enjoyable link to learn from.Bill Graham-RIP-certainly was a good businessman. This is very helpful, and more than I expected in a reply. Thanks again Pig! I'll keep reading.

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: Dec 1, 2008 7:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Glad that I could be of assistance, there's lots more out there floatin' around ya just gotta look for it. Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if ya look at it right !
In addition to searching the web, these forums are a grate place to learn. I can see by the frequency of your post's/question's you have already figured that out. This is one of my favorite forums but there are others with much to offer as well.

peace PP man

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Dec 1, 2008 3:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Again, a quote from Bill Graham himself from the book "Bill Graham Presents"...

"Usually if you've given somebody a good meal and you ask them to please leave because there are other people waiting outside, they'll go. We worked very hard to get everyone out. Twenty-three hundred out, clean the house, twenty three hundred back in. Show times were either seven-thirty and eleven-thirty, or eight and eleven-thirty. It varied. Usually, we had a half hour swing to turn the house around."

This sounds right in spite of what Owsley says in his essay. Take 2/11/70 for example, and the early show where you had Love, The Allman Brothers and The Grateful Dead. I don't know how long a set Love played but I would guess 45 minutes to an hour tops. I have the Allmans set and they played around an hour, and the Grateful Dead's early show, which is incomplete on the archive, but probably not missing very much, was around an hour or so. This adds up to around 3 hours of music on the early show. Factor in set changes and you still fit it all in within 4 hours. The 8-12 midnight early show is certainly possible in spite of Owsley's disagreement to the contrary. I know I have read interviews w/ the Allman Brothers who raved about the way the Fillmore East staff had the set changes down to a science and the equipment on rollers for fast set up.
The late show ended at day break. Phil describes it in great detail in his book.

The Dead in 1970 decided to have their own show whenever they played Fillmore that year after those February shows, providing their own opening act, the NRPS. It simplified things as far as equipment changes went since both bands used the same gear. They didn't even need to set up a new drum set since Mickey played drums for both bands. All that was needed was for the musicians to plug in. Roll the pedal steel guitar away and change the mics around and it's done. They called these evenings "An Evening With The Grateful Dead" and they were marathon shows, even the early shows. Just check out 5/15/70! Both early and late shows were epic and Jerry and Mickey in particular played the whole night with both bands! I just don't think Owsley's essay holds up as an argument. I do accept what Owsley said regarding The Dead playing "other venues" during their runs at Fillmore. There is a show that circulates as 2/12/70 Ungano's Night Club in NYC which is probably one of the "bogus" shows Owsley refers to that never happened. The 2/12/70 show is actually 2/13/70 early show Fillmore East. Even common sense would tell you that the Dead's crew would not set up at Fillmore for a three night run and move all that gear to a night club after the first night and then back to Fillmore again. Even the set list is the same as 2/13/70 early show.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2008-12-01 23:01:54

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 1, 2008 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

Yep; BEAR, my hero (?), aside, a bunch of New York kids with tickets, and stories of being ushered out, resonates with me...I take their word at face value.

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: Dec 1, 2008 5:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Early Show/Late Show

beats me WT,
I wasn't seeing show in the early 70's. Perhaps bear was sampling to much of the product ? Damn man... I'm lucky if I can remember the names of half the people I called my tour family (people I travelled,ate,tripped,showered{sometimes},and saw shows with).
I tend to trust people and if someone says there were early/late shows I believe em. I did however think Bears "essay" on the matter was a side that mistah P.P. should take into consideration in his efforts to unearth the truth.
bear does seem to be throwing down the gauntlet when offering to pay anyone that can produce a so called "late/early ticket".
perhaps he has a personal issue with Dick L. and is just spouting off.. I don't know. I am sure someone does tho. perhaps someday they'll tell the whole story.